Home Trends Michael Piker, senior business executive gets real about leaders communicating- post covid era

Michael Piker, senior business executive gets real about leaders communicating- post covid era

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[Music] welcome to the meeting room at global tv talk show a broadcast service of [Music] globalbusinessnews.net this episode from the meeting room of global tv talk show is brought to you by the bridge school the accredited international online private school of choice at bridge bridgek12.org porchlight rental and destination services reduce your renter lump sum or managed relocation costs visit them at porchlightrental.com and buyairs.com with our full range of services we can help design and manage your international relocation find us at airs.com prime stone partners featuring corporate government and developer housing solutions as well as senior level advisory services find them at primestonepartners.com and by international auto source we are the vehicle experts for expats featuring all major brands of automobiles with flexible solutions and financing on the web at intl auto dot com become a global player in your field cross culture to go provides virtual support for your global business and career success we can help you thrive in 140 plus countries and markets on the web at crossculturetogo.com this is ed cohen and you’re on global tv talk show this is a broadcast unit of globalbusinessnews.net which has been around since 03 and google analytics has tracked 1.2 million audience page views on the site from over 100 countries we launched global tv talk show as a result of the pandemic crashing our live conference business so our last two meetings occur in february 25 in manhattan in times square inside the accounting offices of rsm and it was a sellout and then two days later feb 27 down in washington dc along embassy row we held our meeting our last live meeting and it was a full house a small venue it was the historic uh mansion uh the historic home of former president woodrow wilson which is quite a nice place on embassy row and we had a sellout crowd of non-government people embassy people uh private industry of course and lots of service providers and on the plane back from reagan to reagan national to san diego later that night i was like the only passenger on this place then boy we knew something weird was about to hit and it did the next day so we launched the global tv network as a result of losing our revenue our business and here we are doing a global telecon in a series we’ve done 150 or so since april of 2020 and google analytics has tracked audience development and they say that there’s been about 110 000 audience page views on global tv network so we thank you all for being here our very special guest today is a senior corporate executive uh which he’ll tell you more about in just a second let’s welcome mr michael hi good morning to you all welcome so you recently retired well about a year or so ago from pmi in lausanne switzerland and uh and now you’re a professor and tell us more great question in fact i met my uh dr anna tabis in park slope brooklyn yesterday uh she’s from nyu uh yeah it’s cool i’m doing gigs at nyu uh erasmus in the netherlands helping world at work helping gmj the students are a bit worried about getting a job rightly so but [Music] trying to transmit an emotional corporate experience to master students by zoom it’s not easy but it works i lament the fact that they’re still paying right 50 to 80 grand to do all their classes online but they are going they are going back now um but i it’s kind of the arc of my career i i started teaching in the jet program in japan and i did corporate consulting and i’ve come back to teaching so it’s kind of like giving back coupled with really engaging the next gen to take our passion forward for us beneath us i enjoy that and it allows you to not be tethered to anybody so you can speak your mind openly and the students are incredibly bright for example one program engineer and erasmus it’s the only program that confers a master’s degree in expatriate management in the world that’s pretty cool if that’s in amsterdam that’s in the hague she’s got great faculty 20 students in each batch and then you know dr davis and nyu has got great students at the sps school studying hcm reward mobility lots of cool things so it’s kind of like giving back and not getting paid and it’s fun i it’s probably the best time and i am interviewing for other roles but not being tethered to anybody and being back in new york in my home seeing the city come alive again it’s very felt experience to see my hometown showing life again yeah now you’ve been out of new york for quite a while haven’t you yeah a year and a half like you was stuck in europe stuck in my home doing zooms um yeah my mom passed and i came back and the biggest problem worker you know employers are facing they just don’t have enough skilled workers so there’s a labor participation shortfall right and restaurants can’t staff so yeah every time i go out at night to have a dinner they’re short they would like to make more money but they just don’t have enough people interesting times um there’s so much we can talk about which we’re not going to be able to today so i wanted you to think about coming back once a month or so and just give us a a reporting from the scene wherever that scene takes you right but the scene is is mental because chros from our interviews i’ve learned i’m not a chro i’m a media guy but i’ve learned a lot about it particularly as a result of kovit and its impacts um so chros have become like a ceo whisperer right that’s a great metaphor yeah the um obviously during the pandemic the chros had to step up and they did in an exponential way and the function finally the light was turned like a broadway shot to hr which is pretty cool so from resilience wellness well-being most importantly how do you engage a workforce remotely like last week i did a thing for gme the 400 people on remote working you know everybody talks about it today but how does the chro grapple with engaging online onboarding or deboarding without even seeing anybody is it’s unreal but it’s it is what it is so it takes a certain kind of chro right or just anybody else our business partner to understand the scope of this and be able to relate i guess you know just under understand well from their own experience they know that uh you know you know a little kid will run in uh with wet pants or need something done right away and you’re in the middle of answering the boss’s questions about why i’m not performing better right right yeah absolutely yeah i mean there’s been really the function has pivoted to crisis management uh well-being management um a basically remote engagement so it’s a completely different muscle in your brain and in your heart um you know i’ve been in this for 30 plus years and we’re in the spotlight now but we have to be re-equipping ourselves to remain relevant and everybody’s looking to us to lead um so on the one hand it’s cool to have the spotlight and be at the table like never before but on the other hand uh we’ve gotta re-skill our toolkit responsibilities have dramatically increased and the people who you’re relating to not the other stakeholders but the team yeah they’ve got to speak right up because they’ve been uh enlivened and uh encouraged to speak up exactly yeah i mean uh if you then put on top of that like i live in europe and the pandemic vaccination has been slow but it’s picked up pace here in my beautiful our beautiful home country it’s you know 60 70 vaccination rate that has a direct impact on who goes to work how open are you right and more importantly how society is reopened and are people in a positive mindset or not um you know for example americans can visit europe now but europeans we haven’t reciprocated yet um so and then you’re they look at asia spent years there they had a great start now they’ve gone back into lockdown philippines singapore japan so it’s it’s just so crazy you would expect asia to be sort of at the top of the epic and they’re not who would have predicted this let’s talk about culture impact on getting vaccinated are of leaders of the different countries uh making the same mistakes apparently that trump made in in trying to tough it out mentally tough it out personally and how it reflected in his leadership some of the things he did were pretty good actually but so much of it has been terrible uh awful and the sense of liberation just watching the new york for instance celebration of fireworks the other night mm-hmm yeah i was here yeah wow what an upper uh especially was with uh you know frank sinatra singing that song at the end yeah that was like wow motivator um yeah but now you you look at smart historic europe social minded and they completely blew it i don’t understand how they could do that uh a couple things so you know 25 plus member block to get people to online right to buy for example pfizer moderna contract uh the boris johnson purchased early they made uh the vaccines in belgium and shipped it to the uk but lo and behold europe had not uh signed early enough they did they finally we’ve reached i think 50 but there was a chasm between not only brexit but vaccine diplomacy uk and europe right the europeans were looking with awe that the brits had so far exceeded their expectations and so it was a strange dichotomy it’s better now it’s picked up pace um you know i’m going to venice and florence uh the week after and i couldn’t have done that last year yeah good for you i’m a little jealous although i’m not in a rush to do that i would like to but god i just can’t wait to go to sicily again but but uh maybe next year i don’t know so um australia seems to have escaped things how come uh they have and they have not so um so lately i’m sure you saw sydney’s gone relocked down a bit in melbourne i think it’s partly obviously distance my aussie friends have said um you know when you’re in a island state i’ll bite a lot bigger than singapore is australia huge of course but you can control the borders um they’re not as porous right like new zealand and they did a demonstrably strong effort at the outset but the delta variant came and a lot of indian nationals and our eyes live in australia um beautiful country and unfortunately it’s been hit again singapore you just go across asia and you see this spark of re-uh people being hit again yeah well i hope they can survive this so we’ve been fortunate here uh we each had our you know joanna and i have had the moderna twice last february and you know we’ve never had never had any reaction at all but i think it’s all one’s immune system or lifestyle or what i don’t know so a lot of pre-existing conditions have impacted whether or not people get the vaccine or they get the antibody thing or whatever oh they do nothing but yeah um here in southern california it’s it’s uh since about april there’s been an uh flat out economic boom i mean it’s like it was two years ago and just well just everything is just wild and it from a dead stop i have to tell you for months uh i live in downtown san diego which is convention city and this was a ghost town for too long let me tell you they go a ghost town and uh now especially since memorial day late may the place is just booming navy’s back the film industry hospitality right right everything [Laughter] yeah we had the mats and the yankees playing the yankee stadium the other day that was you know you know new york was back literally a lot of energy yeah that those two teams are playing in a spectator-led stadium but then in two weeks you go to tokyo olympics and sadly i think they’ve capped the amount of spectators and that’s that’s a big bummer yeah pick bummer because the tv shows will do well all on replay you know yeah but the numbers will be way down and advertisers won’t be happy so let’s talk about uh reality of um how bosses in big companies let’s just talk about the companies you’re familiar with the fortune 100. um from your experience and looking now at what’s going on in big companies uh goldman sachs and morgan stanley the two twin peaks of finance um they said don’t if you’re not in the office you’re not going to work here you know you’re not going to get it yeah that’s it so everyone’s showing up but then apple and others are just saying work from home anytime yeah this was a big theme at the gme thing last week with about 400 people um so yeah jamie dimon the goldman crew have mandated like you said but there’s something to be said for fs that’s a very intimate you’re lending money right so you’re working in capital markets you know trading trillions and trillions of dollars on monthly weekly daily um as opposed to tech but the that being said then you get the remote worker conundrum but yes in tech you know some have recanted you know mark is said fully hybrid remote and then he dialed back a bit spotify changed a bit as you know so there’s sort of an equilibrium that is probably hybrid on steroids with a little bit of a remote twist and domestically that’s easier than internationally you know international remote work is a totally different beast it’s a grapple with um but you’re right fs said you need to be vaccinated and you need to have your butt in the office now and jamie dimon has said or you don’t have a job so exactly how do you feel about people walking around wearing a mask i mean you’re not wearing a mask but others you see uh did you walk on the other side of the street real quick uh it’s interesting so you know i got the visor too so when you know like in my beautiful hometown here 70 or plus a north of vaccination rate i was a bit skittish to take uh the subway but i did my father thought i was crazy but you know when your breasts are in around you are pretty much vaccinated you still wear a mask but you’re less emotionally sort of skittish as opposed to in europe the rates are lower and i wear a mask everywhere so here’s the dichotomy right so my you know america started very poorly caught up picked up pace we’re in a decent spot now if i can put it that way europe has a lot more to catch up so i’m less apt to wear a mask here but more afterward in europe because of that reason yeah got it we interrupt this broadcast to bring you a timely announcement hi i’m sergey gorbatov i’m angela lane together we’re researchers writers and practitioners in the field of human resources and we’ve also been multi-country multi-assignment career expats we owe our professional development and growth to a very large extent to the international assignment opportunities that we have had but in a world where distributed work may become the norm we also want to understand what happened to the nature duration and purpose of international assignments together with our colleague julian delzell from the university of south carolina we’re undertaking a study on the future of expatriation and we value your contribution you can participate in this important study by completing a simple 10-minute questionnaire access the questionnaire by typing in your browser tiny url dot com forward slash expert study that’s tiny url dot com forward slash expert study you can also find the link here on ed’s website next to this video thank you for joining us in this study in return for your contribution we’ll provide you with a copy of our research and of course you’ll be invited to an exclusive webinar hosted by ad where we will share our findings right here on global business news and so please go to tinyurl.com forward slash expat study take the survey so that we can better understand the future of expatriation [Music] something that’s really neat is that the bridge school partners with various organizations to provide learning for their students for example we partner with a major ballet company and we are able to enroll several of their students into our school so now not only is the student able to participate in a school and have a seamless transition while they’re very active in their ballet career but now they have other dancers that are with them that are doing some of the same courses so it’s almost becoming a camaraderie where they’re taking similar courses they’re working together on their ballet and really being able to form this great partnership with these organizations to provide a needed service a lot of times there are student athletes who will spend hours and hours at the gym or at the the basketball courts wherever it is and if they’re attending a traditional school they’re in school from eight to three they get a quick snack and then they’re at the gym for three to four hours in the evening coming to us and having that partnership they’re able to break that up throughout the day they can have a morning practice get some schooling in have an afternoon practice finish their schooling in the evening so there’s that flexibility and additionally if there are tournaments or performances it’s fantastic because if there’s a week where they have shows straight through they can take that week off of learning and then pick back up when they’re done so it offers this great flexibility and for the program owners of these sports leagues it is a win-win situation for them because they see this need they see this need that their students need to make sure that they are obtaining the grades necessary to be successful adults in in our country and in other countries but it provides them an environment where they can be successful at both [Music] so uh what do you think is going to happen with women uh generally i know it’s too general but um the people who have decided not to go back generally are women um because they they don’t want the politics i guess and they can work it doesn’t matter when they work whether it’s 10 o’clock at night or or 10 a.m in the morning yeah this is a lot of female executive friends who uh lament this exact very fact ed um so post-pandemic labor for labor participation has shrunk it’s josh berson’s talked about this a lot right so many c-suite roles in some extent are unfilled because uh women’s progression has hit a stagnation point and then have since exited the labor market so and that’s the progress we’ve seen demonstrably in the last 10 years has been phenomenal but yet it needs to exceed by a factor of 10x it’s the world economic forum stuff and then now you have this conundrum of people exiting specifically women and people of color to a greater extent which is very unnerving and so all the great stead that has been made we’re losing track and as you know esg denied workplace equity this is in the c-suite this is the number one issue post-pandemic but yet if we don’t have the labor that’s in the room representing that causality then we’ve actually lost track it’s very very very disheartening so what about the role of global talent rather than local talent and we’re and doing zoom work yeah i mean last week remote working anywhere anyhow any place be it of any volition gender people of color yes you can tap into your global workforce virtually but the question is whether you’re still there there even the apparatus to set up hybrid global remote work is a much bigger beast to solve than domestic so like the tax issue immigration all the stuff you know but like last week you know the biden administration reached the you know the basically a floor for corporate tax so that normalizes the ability for corporations to tap into labor without a tax consequence that’s a big that’s a big change if we can make immigration more porous employment law more porous then maybe we can get participation in labor to actually grow so this is a problem in europe also uh less so it’s um you have somewhat of a harmonized obviously eu uh workplace equity labor employment law when you hit asia and you hit latin america as we know it’s a very different beast let’s talk about brazil for a second oh and let’s just say brazil and mexico being the twin peaks to use that yeah um really strong diverse economies and diverse populations and basically friendly to the u.s and wants to do more trade and so much manufacturing has been in mexico for instance northern mexico and it’s continuing especially with the new nafta which basically i mean doesn’t open the borders but they’re certainly open to trade and and you know canada mexico and the u.s it’s huge huge economic power that can eventually in my view um grow better together and uh compete with asia yeah i mean if you look at uh you’re probably familiar with the visual capitalists they do really cool visual analytics so the trade is you know between mexico and us u.s and canada just as a tripartite pact is i think the most poorest and capitally intense trade per per day per capita and of any other compendium of you know 210 u.n countries right so it’s really important canada and u.s borders still close at the moment as you know um you know trudeau is thinking when to reopen but uh new nafta on the border you know all the companies i work with auto aluminum tobacco have huge facilities right across the rio grande and the precipice and they’re trying desperately to increase the velocity of trade north and south been thwarted somewhat on the other hand brazil i’ve lived in sao paulo it’s been hit tragically by covet as we know and bolsonaro is refuted to science but brazil has an incredibly resilient ag economy fs economy so they will you know brazilians will come back but latin america and you know kamala harris flying down to la town to talk about the border issue it’s fraught with the classic latino issues that have been around for decades they’re intractable societal problems that we need to solve you mean their problems are our problem i think both you know border issue right so uh hyperinflation argentina and brazil right the devaluation of the currencies these problems as you know it have been around for eons but they’re still there and poverty and you know migrant um that want to come to the beacon of america still and how do you solve this uh intractable border issue about crossing and we have um you know housed the homeland security has migrant families even housed in new york city they’ve been spread throughout the country so it’s a challenge a lot of challenges that’s for sure um so what do you think of this phrase that mercer is uh talking about big time talent brokering rather than talent mobility what the heck does that mean yes i that they’re all my former colleagues from mercer uh they’re great great gang there by the way yeah so antennas and um i’ve all talked brokereen is sort of a talent player broker so you broker a contract or percent of time so just like remote work if you’re in high demand right so like cryptocurrency or machine learning where you can set your own pay rate you broker with your employer a uh it’s like a ballplayer with the yankees this is what you’re going to pay me so the brokering is very it’s highly porous and highly negotiable instead of a standard offer so think about the labor market is flipped on a dime in six months so you know there’s more jobs open unfilled so people can dictate their own terms but if you think of really high demand uh professions they can you’re going to pay me x and that’s it so they have yeah exactly i just read that um in something the other day i forgot where but uh but the article was about the uh people in demand who are currently working at google and apple and wherever okay and uh the question was raised uh to the uh world of work person or you know say well how are you gonna deal with this and that the person snapped back saying like a like that said anything they want but exactly you think about we had a ransomware attack you know they want another 70 million bucks right in the last three days do you know a ransomware uh crypto coder to thwart the attacks from russia they can basically go to the nsa and say you’re gonna pay me a million bucks and they will because we just don’t have enough people to deal with ransomware attacks and there’s only maybe 100 that are really good coders they can broker whatever they want to get paid and rightly so so brokering means negotiation i mean it’s like having a sports contract absolutely and you have the attorney repping you no matter what you do yeah it’s it’s supply and demand you got an intercedement and you determine what your rate of pay is simple is that brave new world exactly so a a person like that let’s just say like uh in baseball terms uh on the padres which is my local team uh and uh manny machado right yeah so he he already has a contract with the padres of north of 300 million and he’s also set up his own player representation company there you go which includes tattis uh you know the young guy and and others all right and so manny although he’s an individual player you know just under his own contract he’s very much behind the scenes uh with all these other you know particularly dominican talent uh so i mean it’s really interesting so wouldn’t that same kind of thing develop now in industry absolutely yeah so you have instead of just uh the big four search firms right so you’ll have a compatriot of a similar skill and aptitude brokering talent in mass with employers as a group so it’s not a singular employee employee now it’s a cadre of people like back to my point about ransomware coders if someone were really smart i would be the broker for ransomware coders and take my 100 in my gang and go prefer my service to the highest payer and i bet they’re doing it now so it had it lends itself to the private sector very very quickly so what mercer is writing about you know they published the publishing all the time and i get all their stuff because they want me to help disseminate it through our network um so the latest thing just came in and i haven’t republished it yet because it’s been really busy and it’s a reiteration of their earlier thing from six months ago about the distributed workforce and what it means is this brokering talent all right but it’s all encapsulated within the mindset of mobility management yeah that subset of that would be like a global employment company but you’ve got a particular skill and so give an example like oil and gas uh avail of drillers from a talent broker that are really good at drilling on demand that’s seasonality driven right it’s a shell and exxon go to the gulf and they get 100 drillers that’s talent brokering traditional the new talent brokering is highly skilled highly specialized and very very high rates of pay and you have a group that represents them in mass and negotiates the best pay rate that’s the new norm got it so are you forming a group no no i’m i’m uh very happy being unpaid faculty for now right now yeah i can enjoy that all right so so let’s talk about um uh like for instance i’m here in southern california in palm desert and you’re in uh brooklyn new york and uh you know uh on july 14 i’m doing a global telecon from 13 countries and you know 20 people so i can work anywhere right and they can too they could be in in dubai and bucharest in tehran in mexico city toronto and we’re all working together for a day for in fact 90 minutes and that’s it and then it’s over it’s like spielberg making a movie and he hires up or his team hires up these contract players to do certain things and they better do it and they get paid well and then when it’s done it’s done and the next thing you’re seeing at the academy awards yeah that’s great example exactly that’s what it’s all about that’s what absolutely it’s fun so uh i really appreciate your insight and i’d like to ask you to talk a little bit more about your students at say nyu or erasmus um what’s the demographics um so i met with one of mine who’s a um so a immigrant who came from kenya so the demographic is typically um very highly mobile very high aptitude high iq particularly at a master’s level because somebody’s paying for them as a gift both so edifi who’s a very famous gay activist in new york a brilliant kid 30 years old got he’s a macarthur scholar he’s you know a complete a student brilliant kid he’s the future of the workforce so fully paid scholarship 100 grand to nyu right in return they come back under contract later to help the benefit publish manuscripts yup and write a book which he’s doing so highly um so there’s a you know nyu harassments are a bit of an anomaly because they’re very very very prestigious institutions but um i would say their the questions they pose are more pertaining to can i find work what will work really look like for me in the next 30 years in the middle of the esg and climate change will the world still exist in what form and fashion it’s a very humbling question to answer um and will the pandemic still remain in some form which it probably will which fauci has said they worry the most about meaningful quality of life alongside their quality of work and can they get the balance right in a meaningful way without being obsessed about money but being classically about contributing to greening the earth and they’re very dispirited by the fact that our generation has uh seated to them an earth that is um in flames so i can be so i’ve i’ve got uh i’m dating myself but i’ve got some grandchildren who are in gen z and uh they they are very vocal about that oh you bet my nieces are just graduated once in the coast guard you know she works for the admiral in the asia theater and it’s all about sustainability my sister lives in oregon and oregon is up in flames last week 113 degrees i believe today is 36 in new york city and this is the new norm you know i think they the time showed last week 30 percent of the us west is going to be uh basically going to get hit by wildfires so they’ve ramped up funding and biden’s talking about this all the time how are you going to basically build an infrastructure sustainably to put out fires that will be there for the next foreseeable future i’ve got a wild and crazy idea you know you know steve martin wild and crazy idea so here it is okay biden in his quest to satisfy part of the left closed down that pipeline as we know all right and through one pipeline 10 000 people out of work and hurt the old companies in new orleans because that’s where everything was going to flow all right and made a lot of enemies so why not rehire all those people and all the engineers and the workers and make it a public works program like roosevelt or something yeah and build a pipeline system from the gulf coast and florida capturing all the rainfall that seems to just go down the drain and send it to california with uh and points west right and so they take they can move gas and fuel why not move water and just a constant flow from uh east to west and then refill the reservoirs and have spigots or whatever you call it outlets in oregon in seattle in colorado in vegas and phoenix and san diego yeah i mean the thing about tennessee power authority hoover dam right roosevelt administration and you you’ve got a you know brilliant uh biden he’s doing a great job i know you know i have to be objective here but he’s rooseveltian reference from the first hundred days and think about you’re right in europe for example i live in holland where we have overabundance of water i think we should shift the water from here to in northern cal but the back remains damming alone will not uh get you to goodness so wind farms can churn actually also pipeline regeneration through water not just keystone pipeline so there’s a number of ways you can redirect water without just damning right or just desalinization like saudi does in the middle east there’s a number of ways and hopefully in the infrastructure bill that they’ve got a piece of legislation that covers this this conundrum i think it’s an it’s a no-brainer once you think about it and a political milestone to be able to pull it all together and make it an emergency thing because we need it now yeah it’s going to be a long hot summer so i’m in palm desert and yesterday when we came over from san diego which is a two and a half hour drive um so here uh we go up over the mountains up five six thousand feet and then down into the low desert here in coachella valley as 112. but when when we were here a month ago so we you know so we have this uh house out here that we ran out most of the time but um when we were here a month ago it was like 121. yesterday 121 jesus yeah and yesterday was 112. and so and last night the low temperature was 88. so i presume your state authorities again will have to build resilience water management if i mean you’re in the desert you’re in the air in desert but northern cal oregon washington state unfortunately it’s gonna be a tough year again yeah well they’ve already had some uh small fires in southern california but they they took care of them pretty quick so anyway this is really interesting uh i’m going to say goodbye now but i’m going to follow up with a link to this program building it’s a new product a new product of global talk shows that i’m calling global voices for change with which is an outgrowth of the esg and sustainability thing yeah so uh i i had as a guest on my earlier show about a month ago paul barnes from london yeah i know him well yeah so he set up this sustainability and mobility thing and you know i learned a lot from listening to him and had him on my june 25th broadcast where we were discussing this idea uh and and then uh in the week following or so um just like a couple of weeks ago uh it came to me during the night you know i said it’s global voices and become everyone can become a global voice for change in in different aspects and so i got right on it and i started sending messages out and then all of a sudden i’ve got all these people lined up for july 14. and i got to cut it off because it’s getting too big but um i’m thinking that okay this is going to be a series under the name global voices for change and we’ll bring people together and share ideas yeah i mean like you’re gonna be involved in the future yeah paul is my buddy for years um i really encourage him to do the esg and the mobility ecosystem and sean collins siobhan cummins all of them have contributed it’s under the u.n climate goals but as you know the ecosystem and mobility around esg is fraught with uh over over demand right for change right and this whole idea of uh business travel um you know you know mobility is a big part of that but not the only ones that’s really exactly exactly it’s very interesting so good topic good timing yeah thank you and um thanks for the time ed you look happy and settled i hope it continues thank you take care bye-bye enjoy your summer [Music] thank you for joining us in the meeting room at global tv talk show have a wonderful day and stay safe


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Michael Piker, senior business executive gets real about leaders communicating- post covid era
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