by smart

good evening depending on where in the world you are uh welcome to the first event the brazilian event of the campaign no to the go the cold war an event organized by the no cold war campaign and by the tri-continental institute for social research my name is marco fernandez i am one of the organizers of the campaign and a researcher of the tri-continental institute this event is held in partnership with tvt the workers television brazil jifato newspaper and the chongyong institute in china all three uh responsible for the stream in portuguese mandarin and english in the youtube channel of the no cold war campaign good morning good evening good afternoon my name is things check from the tri-continental institute of social research which is an international institute oriented by people’s organizations focused on stimulating the intellectual debate at the service of people’s aspirations we have offices in sao paulo buenos aires johannesburg and new delhi it is an enormous honor to be here with you here virtually and coordinate this panel with marco okay we are in shanghai china we all have participants here in china and in brazil to introduce very briefly what the campaign is the no cold war campaign we observe the actions and actions and statements ever more aggressive by the us government against china they constitute a threat to world peace and are an obstacle for humankind to be able to deal with common problems extremely serious problems that confront us like climate change pandemic control racist discrimination and economic development therefore we believe that any new cold war would be totally contrary to the interests of humanity instead of that we are in favor of the maximum global cooperation so as to confront the normal challenge the enormous challenges of humanity so therefore we call upon the us government to step back from this threat of a new cold war stop pressuring other countries from adopting such dangerous positions we wish china u.s and brazil can base their relations on dialogue and centering on the common issues that unite humanity if you want to know more about our campaign access our site no coldwar.org and there you can find out more about what we’ve been doing in the last few months we began last year started in england and in the us but now has spread to various parts of the world including latin america so now we are we are here with the debate a brazilian brazil debate with a special guest uh from china professor wenguin and former president of brazil dilma rousseff so what is the proposal during the government of the workers party brazil became an important actor on the international setting latin america and international setting especially through its role in marcosol bricks monashur and silac president vilma and president roosevelt rousseff had with foreign minister telsomoring made much effort to develop a new multi-polarity in world policy working in close in proximity with china president lula at the pueblo group recently stated i am convinced that the u.s will never tolerate the protagonism of latin american countries since the 2016 coup brazil has uh distanced itself from the brics coordination and realigned with the united states at the same time in in the last year bilateral trade between brazil and china reached a record amount of 553 billion hais and brazilian surplus increased 7.3 percent last year reaching 190 billion here in other words brazil’s surplus with china is 70 percent of our whole trade supplements in the case of the pandemic brazil signed agreements to produce the chinese bhakti coronavac and astrazeneca with britain but do we know that the inputs the ingredients come only from china making the brazil-china relations even more fundamental at this moment of the pandemic perhaps because of this president bolsonaro in recent months had reduced the the inflammatory nature of his discourse against china but just recently in a couple of last couple of weeks he has raised the stakes once again with an inflammatory speech against china so we want to raise the following questions for this debate what should be the next chapters of brazil u.s china relations in the context of the new administration in other words the biden presidency and also in the development of the pandemic now second question how to how to develop an independent foreign policy for brazil and the third how can individuals and organizations make a contribution to the no cold war campaign as you can see we managed to bring together a very special group of leaders political intellectual leaders from brazil and china with of course the highlight of the illustrious presence of our president um and so ha this work each speaker will have 10 to 12 minutes with the exception of president yuma who will make the opening speech around 20 minutes so we prepared a few questions for each speaker as suggestions of course but they are free to add other elements to their contributions we opted to not have a debate for the events of not not to be too long but we think this is we hope this is the first of many events of the no cold war campaign there will be other opportunities for debate okay so no q a this time so today i’m going to introduce briefly our gifts by the order in which they will speak so first president dilma rousseff then minister celso morin who was minister of foreign affairs of brazil and defense in the lula and dilma government unfortunately minister had a personal uh uh engagement last minute and he won’t be with us live but he sent us a video which we will uh show we have a very special guest from china who speak to us directly from picking professor wenwen executive director of the chongyong institute of the monica brookman of the federal university of theo de janeiro brazil who was an aide to the general secretary of honor sur between 2011 and 2013 and who also uh contributes with the tri-continental institute next we’ll have professor elias jabor from the state university of rio de janeiro who is a member of the central community of the communist party of brazil lastly one of the main leaders of the people’s movements in brazil are comrade john pedro stellage member of the national coordination of the mst the landless workers movement of brazil biggest people’s movement in latin america so without further ado let us launch into our event so starting with our most illustrious guest president rousseff so i will uh suggest three questions for her to answer and add whatever remarks she wishes so madam president what was the what were relations like between uh brazil and china and the workers party governments what was the role and what is the role of the brics group today and how to prevent a new cold war thank you for your presence president madam president you have the floor so first i would like to greet professor wang wayne professor monica brookman and professor elias jabo a member of the leadership of the communist party of brazil also to greet my dear brother comrade jean-peters gradually one of the leaders of the msc the biggest people’s organizations in brazil so i’m going to invert the order of the question so i think it’s important to characterize that the new what is the new cold war since the financial crisis of 2008 the conflict china us became clear whether through the policy of um containment which was implicit which was veiled under president obama and the tpp the trans-pacific partnership is an example of this veiled policy but then openly and declaredly under president trump and now more diplomatic very aggressive uh streaks under the biden presidency some people call this setting of new cold war but i believe we are this setting is marked by a huge difference between the post-second world war cold war and the current geopolitical moment involving this conflict i think the setting that characterizes this conflict is on the one hand capitalism in its new liberal faith extremely financialized in the united states which wants to impose a dynamic of growth based mainly on speculation on financial speculation and on the other side on the other side uh major development of the socialism with chinese characteristics which leads to an extraordinary result in 30 years so what is the main characteristic today is the economic recovery of china and it is radically different much faster than u.s economic growth in the face of kovis so china is growing 20 in relation to 2019 its reserves has have had significant increases and the gdp grew 2.3 percent in 2020 while the u.s and european countries are between a drop of 4 to 10 percent in their gdp in 2020 so covet pandemic in itself does not change the trend but it does um radicalize the most marked characteristics of what had been happening between the nations since then of course there was a moment when the conflict didn’t happen it was the strategic opportunity stage and in that period from 79 to 2013 china grew at about 9.8 a year and there were two moments 91 and 2001 to 2013 at rates that were closer to uh were above 10 percent so this feature shows that in the 30 years there was an immense expansion a sort of prior accumulation of the chinese economy which led to growth both of the private sector the development of the special export zones in the south and also strong growth of the public based in strategic goods like for example intermediary goods oil steel aeronautics there was an increase in agriculture family agriculture and also cooperatives in the state farms which meant a strong increase in the food production for the first time in chinese history hunger ceased to be an issue and so china just disappeared from the un hunger map in 2014 like brazil and indonesia it’s very important in the development of china this standard education science technology and innovation and this means that clearly there is a systematic effort to reduce distances whether sending millions of students to the best universities in the world whether modernizing and restructuring their own institutions with huge investments in the united states only five percent of university students study engineering which contrasts with china which is one-third of students study engineering this is very important because engineering provides the base for this innovative drive in the education field china has an excellent performance which allows it to increase the capacity to sustain the growth in science technology and innovation and china did this in agreement in with the participation of the institutions of the us and europe and europe both at the stage of the opportunity of strategic opportunity and in more recent years consider considering that the strategic opportunity stage ended with the 2008 and nine financial crisis so currently china produces more engineers than the us europe japan and taiwan and korea south korea together and six times more than the us in number of engineers this is extremely relevant there is there is a there is an open uh race to develop the global leadership in science and technology for the first time this is taking place particularly in artificial intelligence and other relevant fields like 5g and others and you also have in wall street journal recognize that in the important field will be the holy grail which is quantum computing china has a relevant role so for the first time in the world’s recent history a country within china is next to the us at the cutting edge of the greatest transformation of the 21st century which is a technological revolution of ai and what is known as communication and information technology in addition the chinese economy because of its size represents 40 of the internet global transactions all of this creates a space a very important space in this configuration of the new dispute that is being called the new cold war this setting is a setting in which the most important part of the conflict will occur and it’s important for us to highlight that precisely the conflict of the united states trying to impede the arrival of 5g technology it’s actually a manifestation of this aspect another manifestation is the attempt to hinder the access of china to semiconductor smaller size of three to seven nanometers this is because the microchip wars will be a war in which international leadership will be decided this area is very important for us to look at it’s not possible to understand this conflict if we don’t understand that this is the most important realm of the conflict not least because in the area of technology china has great advantages it’s hyper competitive its private sector hyper competitive the processes that took place the technological absorption that took place in it all that the us has copied all that japan and germany has copied from china as well also china had copied other people’s techno other countries technologies it’s got its own drives and internal possibilities so this explains this great need of the united states to concentrate its dispute in certain questions and i think we must highlight the huawei conflict the the struggle between the united states and huawei trying here in brazil to block the adoption of 5g so here in brazil this is the case this shows that this is very complicated from the point of view of cooperative relationships why because the usa doesn’t have any alternatives to offer to huawei’s 5g technology and chinese 5g is much cheaper for developing countries such as brazil and in addition today it has the potential to bring not only more speed to our interconnections and improve cellular phone services but it’s it’s the main means of into introducing industry 4.0 so the fourth industrial revolution because it it has has a smaller latency period and it allows a exchange of informations to be quicker and this is vital in a world in where the internet of things will be vital just to give you an idea relationship robotics relationships on the shop flooring factories will be vital so two robots talking to each other as quickly as possible with the smallest possible latency period is vital so this is a fundamental part aspect of this new conflict on the other hand the combination of the apprehension of machines and 5g will allow all production processes to be automated this means that it will affect industrial processes autonomous vehicles smart cities and a whole broadening of the digitalization of services and it will transform the online and offline world in one single world therefore what’s in question in this dispute is who will lead the fourth industrial revolution technological revolution and who will have access to all of its benefits at the same time it’s important to remember that it produces effect in the labor market and as such it will tend to aggravate especially in neoliberal countries with neoliberal capitalism it will tend to aggravate the massive dismissal of workers it will aggravate the reduction both at the top the middle and the bottom of the pyramid of job opportunities and as this is a human product it will only be resolved in the political sphere therefore the role of the state in each one of these economies is very important when you have a reduced role of the state there is no way of conducting this politically finally i think that this view well there was a view and i think it’s still around it’s an extremely prejudiced view by the american deep state and the american elite regarding china and it’s based on two prejudices the first prejudice is the prejudice of thinking that china all of this time of strategic opportunities was the country a country that wasn’t developed and that lacked the capacity to and on the level of development of the usa this prejudice is based on another prejudice which is the prejudice that says that as long as china doesn’t jettison the communist party without adopting a liberal democracy it would not be able to carry out a sustainable development and there lies a big mistake because if you don’t understand that the communist chinese communist party is responsible for this extraordinary transformation then it’s difficult for you to understand how this process was possible so this prejudice i think was has been decreasing and i think it was very much hit by the 2008-2009 crisis why because the deep state elites of the usa supposed that china would be presumed that the china would be the focus of the crisis and the focus of the crisis was the us and so this unipolar after the fall of the soviet union and the gulf war the us placed itself as the center of the economical financial ideological movement so in the 2008 nine crisis there was a world that fell apart the the world of us hegemony this is very important because this explains both the g20 and brick bricks and g20 were the reaction that the emerging economies gave to this fact of course the responsibility for one of the most dramatic crises after 1929 was a process that happened in the usa which is a financialization process which be made financial speculation the main basis of the economy and it made it so that there were no long-term prospects only short-term prospects this short-term prospect means that there’s a decrease in science and technology investment deregulation of financial markets and it also imposes a huge inequality which affected all countries of the world because the so-called washington consensus started being imposed on countries so latin american countries we all suffered the incursions of the new liberal agenda which means a minimal state a reduction of public expenditure on education on health etc the brics and the g20 were a reaction to this moment in time so if you look at what the bricks were they were precisely formed in the context of the 2009 economic crisis in brazil we considered it vital to create another poll in order to ensure not to create a separate power but to ensure multi-polarity to ensure that there be more balanced relationships less asymmetrical relationships in the international setting because asymmetrical relationships aren’t equal to multipolarity so there was a search to build the bricks group and this is the same search that led to the g20 and it had a specific aspect to it because it links coordinates the three biggest four biggest economies and then we saw the entry of south africa so it was brazil russia india china and south africa so this creation was a result of a new conception of the need to have a international economic force to make relationships existing relationships less asymmetrical especially in the financial and economic fields yeah institutionally so it made too two things clear so the institutionality that existed this far was inappropriate was inadequate for example forum which was in formal but became institutionalized the g7 the imf and the world bank became inadequate as well because they offered insufficient representation to emerging countries in these discussions from g7 we went to g20 and regarding the world bank and the imf the responses of the bricks were the brics development bank with a hundred billion dollars in capital and the contingent reserves agreement which was an agreement to ensure protection and stability for the brics countries in the face of international crises this had a 100 billion dollar fund which would be slowly integrated in all countries but another aspect of the brics which is vital is that as well as the brics agenda which talked about food security energy security climate change reduction and inequality in all countries there was a coordination between the brics and regional institutions among the countries of the brics so then there was this type of expansion of the brick in the face of these regional institutions with meetings for example between the briggs and organization for the cooperation of shanghai a group created in 2001 which gathered the leaders of china russia and four asian central asian countries kazakhstan uzbekistan kurdistan and afghanistan and this was something that happened straight away in the first meeting there was that meeting also between the briggs and the african union when the brics meeting was in durban in south africa there was a meeting and on a soar meeting with the briggs when the meeting took place in brazil in the fortaleza meeting in brazil it was in the meeting was in brasilia and then in fortaleza within usual and in 2015 in russia there was a meeting with the euro asian economic union formed by belarus kazakhstan nina uzbekistan with the presence of iran as well all of these mechanisms they aimed at this integration because the brick bank for example it was presumed that it would also be a tool for supporting emerging economies and it also gave subsidies for us to integrate ourselves in the question of the silk route which at that time here in brazil was basically the agreement of the atlantic pacific link via railways in a way not just to overcome the panama canal canal but to add to it so the briggs had a vital role so to resume the bricks which is something strategic for brazil not least because one of the results of it was that there was a weakening of the bricks because the b and the i elements of bricks were have suffered problems b because of bolsonaro which has really threatened brazil and i because of an attitude of china sorry for by india to as bolsonaro a similar route to bolsonaro in relation to the usa so narendra modi’s government being ultra right-wing assumed a similar stance so all of this shows the following that our recovery would have to be necessarily political so we need a transformation i’m going to talk on behalf of brazil here in brazil for us to have a recovery a return to brics not least because this is strategic for brazil why [Music] you talked about the commercial surplus the over 500 billion dollars etc and investments but i’d like to talk about a different issue i’d like to talk about brazil’s insertion in the global value chains latin america needs to strengthen itself foreign oh brazilians and we had in 2014 we had taken brazil out of the global hunger map of the united nations and now we are back at the hunger map because this partnership with china implies with russia with india with south africa it implies this relationship built with the south submarine who will now explain the foreign policy that we had with other countries in the world the strengthening once again of the g20 the rupture with this view i would say insensitive and non-humanitarian vis-a-vis the vaccines which is the opposite of the chinese attitude which is having an extremely adequate vaccine diplomacy and today in brazil we know this well because we are adopting almost 90 percent coronavec chinese brazilian vaccine because the others are are are lacking so all of this will imply necessarily a radical alteration of brazilian politics so i want to conclude by saying the following bricks will only go back to being bricks with this change in brazilian policy policy politics and without that we cannot return to a better setting thank you president dilma [Music] for this uh lecture very clear about what is behind this attack of the us against china and the importance of multilateral organizations of the global south that emerged in recent years and the prospect of rebuilding bricks so now i’m going to hand over to minister celsomori who will speak to us about a little bit about the history and the importance of the relations between china and brazil the world has undergone notable changes these changes are not uh new many of them uh will be speeded up by the pandemic we don’t know how long it’s going to last what are what the responses will be but many changes had already been happening in 30 years we had the end of a cold war the end of a bipolar world the appearance of a hegemony of the united states almost unchallenged for a long time with the ascent of other powers and of the united nations and more recently we started witnessing another tendency which has two main aspects i would say one is multi-polarity the fact that there are many centers of power in the world and so therefore we don’t live in a world that is hegemonistic the other tendency that is part of the first is specifically the rise of china this is a major change a momentous change the chinese economy has overtaken the american economy in and purchase power parity and over the course of the decade will overtake also in standard exchange rate terms and this is speeded up by the pandemic itself furthermore china has demonstrated something that the u.s lacked in recent years and maybe was missing from other countries which is the capacity of what u.s theoreticians call the white power soft power forgive me so china for different regions has a major investment capacity and has directed major resources to infrastructure um works not only in ser in asia but also in europe and africa this gave china a lot of projection a lot of trend and the pandemic speeded up this process because china although it was the country where apparently the pandemic began on the other hand it controlled it very quickly and the economy recovered so in 2020 it was one of the few large-scale economies that grew and grew 2.3 percent and probably will grow a lot more in 2021. so the united states had a strong recession they are recovering now but uh they will be very hard basically they won’t have the chinese growth levels so some theoreticians call the the trap it’s a reference to the peloponnesian war and the emergence of athens as the major power threatening the hegemony of sparta what the analysts talk about they say that the war is inevitable i don’t agree neither cold war neither are hot war there’s a world with tensions but these tensions must be dealt with through dialogue and cooperation the world today is no longer a fit for cold war the united the soviet union in the united states and their respective allies were they were separate worlds they almost didn’t uh connect to go from vienna to eastern europe was really difficult if you did depending on the past what you had if you had the visa they would give you a separate sheet of paper today the world is completely integrated it’s impossible to isolate countries from each other technologically and the challenges cannot be separated for example climate change so and and health issues cannot be separated either like the pandemic is demonstrating so the world cannot withstand a cold war and it is not necessary of course for it not to occur many factors are required among them the idea that no one else no one should fight for hegemony we can’t we don’t want to replace one hegemony uh with another the world we have to live in will have to be a a world with greater cooperation i’m not an idealist it’s hard it’s hard but that’s what we have to work towards with supporting the multilateral system the united nations because of the pandemic the uh who but also in trade the wto there’s now a very interesting uh discussion now about patents the validity of patents during the pandemic this is a discussion that everybody has to take part in i think the u.s president gave a decent example a decent by espousing the suspension of the vaccine patents which some developing countries had already been advocating so these are global questions and require cooperative responsive dialogue the international system itself has to change i’m going to be very frank with you maybe my chinese friends will not agree we cannot deal with questions like the pandemic climate change without a body with power like the security the u.n security council but without the veto power we cannot accept the evita power over the the future of humanity this is a major challenge and china will play a huge role in this challenge china like every major power it has its economic power um political power soft power but also military power but also new conceptions of living we have to deal with that there has to be a dialectic between the u.s conception more individualistic and the more solidarity version i’m not saying one is better than the other but it’s necessary to understand that major changes in the world has to be dealt with in this way that’s what i see i also see that it’s not a bipolar world russia remains a major power in the military field the united uh the european union is also a major economic power with all of its challenges the developing world and as much as it comes together and integrates also that has some uh important powers in in the emerging world and that’s the context brazil has to think about that’s the context that it will be multi-polar and china will have a key role and brazil cannot accept the idea of cold war and the implicit idea that you have to opt for one side or the other if you’re not with me you’re against me brazil wants excellent relations with china but wants to continue having good relations with europe and the united states and obviously needs excellent relations in latin america and the caribbean and africa and asia india so in a multi-polar world but we have to uh recognize that china will play a key role and it’s of the interest of brazil not just the trade interest or the pandemic but also to build this new world this the brics will be fundamental there was a construct of the governments that i took part in as uh a foreign minister uh and with under president dilma it was further strengthened with the brics bank brics development banks so that’s the context that we have to work in to make this motor polar world be a world of cooperation and the tensions and rivalries which are inevitable have to be dealt with have to be tackled through dialogue with reasonableness i want to talk a little bit more just a little bit more about the partnership brazil china because historically i have a a connection to that not not way back because that began under president geisler during the military dictatorship who had a decent geopolitical view the united states had already started this discussions with china but hadn’t concluded them yet but during the sahara government as science and technology minister ministry with a big one of the biggest cooperation south south corporation projects for a long time perhaps the biggest uh still of the biggest advanced technology which uh a project south south which was a chinese brazilian uh satellite project years later i was i had the opportunity as minister of the itamar franco presidency to sign the strategic partnership when zhang zaming came to brazil the first strategic partnership that china signed with this name so it’s not something to be disparaged a major historic uh view looking forward but let’s talk a little bit about trade when we signed the strategic partnership the bilateral trade in the two in the two directions was one billion dollars today it’s more than a hundred billion dollars so huge growth and in the multilateral um forums uh britain has had common positions with china on non-intervention internal affairs just like we’ve had in common positions with other countries in common with developed countries some capitalist countries we do have some um common positions with them as well so brazil has to give major importance the real brazil not necessarily the current government the real brazil has to lend not a huge importance to relations with china this is historic this started under the military regime the first civilian government the sane government had this major joint project and then in the itamar government in the early 90s this for a minimal strategic partnership which became deeper in the fenugreek government and then even more under the lula government with brics and the reciprocal um meetings with president xin tao came to brazil et cetera and under president dilma which is an uh honor to speak after her so i want to say that brazil china have to be together have to be united for towards a non-hegemonic world a world with true respect for multilateralism international norms which is based on a structure of power as diffuse as possible we know that the ideal does not exist but bodies institutions forums like brics and others can be very important we’ve seen the advances of china in trade negotiations in its region in its uh continent irrespective of ideology and brazil to be to do justices has to work very hard for greater integration in south america latin america and the caribbean and let’s recognize the uh kissinger used to say that china is a civilization a masquerading as a country brazil is not that big but latin america and the caribbean as a whole taken together perhaps can measure up to that so in china is a block the european union is a block we need to be a major block in latin america and the caribbean or at least in south america to be able together with africa to be able to be part of this multilateral world and make it more peaceful and the main value should be human life and in this way through solidarity through cooperation and some competition is normal and healthy but cooperation must prevail that’s the world we want there’s no interest in a cold war we mustn’t be fooled by this prospect i don’t know if you’re watching us now but thank you very much for your video about the importance of multilateralism in the today’s world and the strategic character of relations between brazil and china now we invite professor wang nguyen of the chongyong institute here in china who will talk about the brazilian uh the chinese point of view about relations and contemporary geopolitics over to you professor wenger thank you thank you mr self and all my friends good morning good afternoon and good evening thank you for inviting me again to this webinar on no code war today being able to speak after president rousseff in the same webinar as an honor of mine actually in a lot of chinese perspective president rousseff is an excellent and charismatic female politician we miss a lot the china brazil relationship when you’re in the office i believe tonight all the chinese friends who are watching this they share the same idea last july 25th the noco war webinar had been watched by over 200 million people of over 50 countries online and it is on hard evidence of the great attention and support of the nokop war received worldwide and today with president rousseff the force of global peace and development is stronger and actually the concept of noko war is outdated it’s just some americans who wanted to return to the u.s soviet cold war and continue with their hegemony actually in china the so-called new cold war has no role at all in the past three years actually the trump trump and pompeo kept provoking china launching trade war type war etc but china responded calmly without jeopardizing the overall framework of the two countries so i think the new code world did not break out actually data showed that on 2019 and 2020 the china u.s bilateral trade and investment increased proving that people in the economic and financial circle in both countries are spending actual money in a pragmatic way saying no to the no co into the new cold war so uh now a bunch of politicians in u.s europe and australia are like they are role-playing don with their spear fighting against the windmill showing their courage and strength and china is the imaginary wing male and their political logic is a simple three step first uh they will make up lies on china for it for instance xinjiang hong kong the human rights are subtouched and china stole i.p from other countries and trying to control the world and second they will strongly condemn china for the so-called crimes and openly expressed expressed to the media that their judgment on china is morally correct and third the congress will pass plans against china to get more funds to keep on with their schemes and conspiracy but these are outdated frauds more and more people have recognized that in china even the average netizens will think that the political tricks of u.s are ignorant and ridiculous and childish they take china as the scapegoat to divert attention from their mistakes in the economic development pandemic control and human rights protection quoting chairman mao all the reactionaries are paper tigers china is not to be intimidated in the past seven decades the u.s has conducted four runs of offensives against china um 1949-78 military offensive 78 to 99 ideology offensive 92 to 2016 economic offensive and the comprehensive offensive of trump but china is still standing in the past china was forced to participate in the korean war and vietnam war defending its national security and through reform and opening up china promoted a new wave of rapid growth and the chinese companies with their self-resilience make china the country who has the most companies in the fortune 500s and the fourth round of offensive is even worse after trump coming to the office and the u.s mirrored and used headbands and increase taxes against china but as we all know the chinese government society and companies have resisted the pressure and become more and more united and resilient 2020 china is the only uh country in the world with positive growth in economy and foreign trade so china’s economic volume is expected to overtake us in five to eight years and become the biggest economy ending the economic dominant domination of u.s in the 130 years so with the four runs of the offensive the us has actually not taken any substantial advantage but china’s ability to play against the us has been strengthened now um we believe that the china’s strategic posture towards the u.s um has changed and the error of the sole superpower has passed the time of true multi polarity has come it is characterized by three features at least the first is the multi-polarization of perceptions and the rise of the national confidence in emerging countries especially the brics countries has caused the total collapse of the fantasy of the us the failure of u.s fighting against the pandemic and the selfish behavior on vaccines and the domestic governance deficiencies weaken the u.s u.s soft power u.s is no longer the beacon to the world and also the decline of the g7 is faster than we could have imagined so more and more countries will believe that they can have their own development path that fits that their own national conditions and second is the multi-polarization of the economy emerging economies in terms of the uh tech innovation demographic advantage and economic potential well in the past pandemic era keep growing and the brics countries and brazil will remain the most premise uh potential emerging econ economy in the world and i estimate before 2030 the top 10 economies in the world economy uh emerging economies and the g7 countries will be have have and the third is the multi-polarization of governance and globalization will be based on individual regional governance and in each region the western influence will decline and they can no longer manipulate these places as it did in the past for example brazil’s influence on latin america and china’s influence on asia will continue to rise and the international organizations they will um contribute greatly to the regional equality and development so uh we have to admit for the future china-u.s relationship u.s cannot defeat china of course we china do not want a new code war but china will firmly defend its national interest so of course uh the tension will become the new normal for the china u.s future relationship i’m afraid this is something everyone will have to accept and adapt to so i would like to share three conclusions of no nuclear war first we must see the um politicians of the west they uh their lies the deceptive nature of the so-called nuclear war they are just uh promoting a conspiracy against china pretentiously uh pretentiously we need more international peace forces like um president rousseff today standing up against these lies and conspiracies i think it is very important as a chinese scholar i would like to give a big thumb up to miss rasef i totally agree with everything you just said and secondly we must insist on opposing hegemony promoting the true multilateralism and defending world peace actually um brazil under president rousseff’s administration is very respectful brazil is a big country in latin america and has played a great role in world peace and development we have to say in the 21st century humanity still faces the threat to peace for the last 20 years u.s launched afghanistan war iraq war libial war and syria war etc causing about 1 million deaths and more than 10 million refugees creating a huge disaster to the world so every country should draw a lesson from this china brazil every country in the world should bear the responsibility to condemn the disaster makers and encourage more countries to be independent and third as a chinese scholar i urge my foreign friends online from the english-speaking country portuguese speaking country and spanish-speaking countries we must believe in the dividends that china’s development brings to the world not in the irresponsible attacks on china just as president rousseff said china is rising and china’s rise is based on self-discipline over the past four decades china has developed it rapidly without invading other countries or provoking wars or sending refugees we commit not to be the first to use nuclear weapons and signs most international conventions china i think is as peaceful as brazil we have made the uh five-year plans and also we set a green and low-carbon goal that is to fight against the climate change without repeating the europe and u.s old path of the pollution first and regulation later and in a consecutive 10 years china’s economic increasements contributed about 30 percent of the world economy and left 700 million people out of poverty undertaken about one-thirds of the global infrastructure construction and investments and created more international jobs i think china’s development path is worthy of the worst respect and worthy of more countries to learn from and i remember president rousseff once said something that i admire a lot she said courage is the mother of change in 2013 miss rousseff said that i think it’s a very powerful statement i couldn’t agree more now i think it is a time to have the whole world pick up the courage again to fight against the hegemony to pursue equality and a better future to say no to the new cold war and in the last i hope that we can conquer the pandemic in the near future and we will invite miss rousseff to china again with a sincere heart and we will invite mr self to our university to give a lecture on our students thank you thank you a lot for having brought your contribution about the strength of the economy and chinese society and facing up to the attacks by the united states and recovering the economy and the importance of creating a peaceful multipolar future so with this i’m going to hand over to professor monica brookman and suggest the following questions why do the does the us or the u.s invest is why is the us investing on a new cold war against china is does china’s version of socialism bring any sort of um can contribute in any way to brazil good morning from rio de janeiro the people from rio say it’s the most beautiful city in the world i as a peruvian humbly agree with this statement and i’d like to say that it’s a great joy to be here with president dilma and this debate and with my colleagues aboard and my dear comrades won’t pay it through i’d like to congratulate the tri-continental institute for organizing these meetings in order for us to make these reflections i’d like to start off by saying that there’s a great construction a discursive and symbolic construction regarding this reaction to the cold war which is increasingly divorce from the material nature of the world economy and the changes in the world so i think that the increasingly greater gap between this discourse and between what’s actually happening in the world economy i would synthesize these great transformations of the contemporary world model the contemporary world economy which we see very concretely and have been very concrete in the last few 20 years but i see two movements in this process first of all a displacement of the economic dynamism from the western countries europe us to the east especially china but not just china i think all the all of southeast asia with china’s leadership which is taking up this leadership in the economic dynamism on a global level and secondly the displacement of this economic dynamism from the north to the emerging south and this is a process that precedes the pandemic so this crisis of 2020 which has been projected to 2021-22 which is the greatest crisis since the second world war perhaps the third more important in the last 140 years but i would say that this crisis is deepening and accelerating said that the aim is that by 2030 the chinese economy will be the greatest the largest economy in the world in absolute terms in gross terms but we considered here in our analysis in america in latin america the fact that since 2014 both the international monetary monetary fund and the world bank has already placed in the ranking of the largest world economies china at the first place when you consider gdp right purchasing power and secondly in second place comes the united states in 2014 some of the largest economies of the world were some of the british countries including indonesia the pre-covert 19 projections for 2050 which some institutions have made in terms of forecasts of the world economy and this process will certainly be sped up well they indicate that by 2050 china will remain in first place india possibly would come second as the second largest economy in the world pushing the united states down to third place and out of the 10 larger world economies in 2015 and probably before that seven will be countries of the global south including one african economy which is nigeria which is projected to be one of one of the world’s largest economies so from the developed north only japan germany and the us will remain these are very deep transformations of the world economy which really shows a reorganization of the contemporary world system with implications as president dilma said in the areas of geopolitics technology and when we analyze the capacities of scientific local scientific production by 2012 50 percent of scientists and engineers on the planet were being were graduating in china and with india closed second so we can see what’s happening in terms of an increasing process of weakening of the united states and the rise of the chinese economy and we see that the conditions of thinking proposing and discussing a cold war are very limited because there’s no such thing as a sort of parity of economic power with the geopolitical and diplomatic consequences that this means if we look at the covert 19 crisis impact on the world there was a great reduction in the world economy something as like 55 7 for european countries in 2020 usa 13.5 decrease and south southern europe 11 so in a world of great economic shrinkage the only country that most grew over two percent was china so it’s interesting that when we look at this recovery of the global economy we see that for 2021 the projection is that china will grow by eight percent in india by eleven percent in relation to for example very low growth in europe and the united states which are growing much more slowly so we see that the curved crisis has had a different impact it’s impacted the developed economies of the north than the emerging economies of the south especially the asian one and two of those china and india will be important engines to drive forward the economic world economic recovery so if we look at a very important aspect to think about what is behind this discourse of the cold war and what are the real conditions of the united states to impose a process of this nature we can analyze for example the public debt of the developing developed countries especially the usa since 2001 and especially since the war against terrorism it has increasingly accumulated public debt in 2019 this public debt was the 13th largest in the world which precisely to fund this process of militarization which is so intense and acquired a new character in 2001 too in 2020 the us left four positions and became the country with the ninth largest public debt over 127 of its gdp and what’s been recently projected by the imf for 2021 shows that the us could close the year with a public debt 132 of gdp but when we look at the composition of this public debt which is something really quite interesting because it’s partly internal but partly external so the main deck of the united states is japan and the second one is china so i ask what are the real conditions that for the united states to impose a discourse world war ii type called war when their economic dependence in including terms of public debt it’s really quite big so another important question that we have to analyze in order to reply to the questions that marcus and things mentioned which is what is the interest of the united states in putting this discourse of the cold war on the international agenda is to think about the creating importance of the project of the new silk route as organizer of this new eco dynamic of the world economy which is not just a trade dynamic and a dynamic that involves the asian territory but that’s having a strong impact on the world system as a whole it includes africa and impacts directly on latin america as well the new silk route was launched as a project in 2013 less than a year later in 2014 21 countries were part of this agreement memorandum and in 2020 38 of the countries in the world were part of the new silk route including 18 latin american countries in my opinion argentina is going to become the 19th country of latin america to be part of this new silk route if we see that look at the fact that the space of diplomatic coordination and interstate coordination that’s most important of the planet is a u.n with 130 countries taking part the new silk route obviously becomes the second most important state for space for technological and diplomatic coordination and a place for reconfiguration of territories and political spaces on a planetary level i think it’s very important to look at this on these terms because it’s becoming a great umbrella for world uh reorganization of world geopolitics but there’s also a way in which it’s creating new instruments which are sub-regional spaces for coordination which dilma mentioned the coordination of shanghai which the acn as well which precedes the new silk route but beakers become more dynamic with this chinese project and the chinese russian relations the bric the eu and economic is several economic partnerships throughout the new circuit both on both continental and maritime and recently the rcap launched by china particularly at a moment of elections of the united states which includes 13 multi-medium countries of the south of southeast asia including oceania so it includes oceania which is a historically important area for the united states the response of the us was to contain china which was the alliance between australia japan the usa and india trying to contain china and the new silk route geopolitically and all of its developments but this has come with many problems because if we think for example the case of australia australia is a great exporter of metallic and non-metallic products which are very important on the contemporary global agenda which has an impact on for example on the energetic transition for example the d carbonization of the economy this was discussed in the climate comet summit which in which 40 countries discussed this theme and went back to an agenda that had been jettisoned in the last few years so this decarbonization of the world economy means there’s a greater demand for certain critical minerals on which low carbon [Music] technologies depend on for example wind and solar energy which are needed for for example for solar panels um windmills electric vehicles electric vehicles consume five times more of these metals than regular vehicles and they’re great reserves in latin america especially south america but australia in spite of having small reserves has become a great producer of these minerals for the world economy the main destination of these exports is china so what i ask is is australia going to stop importing exporting to china because now it’s part of this agreement with the united states well this formula has failed in the past this formula was launched in our region was launched in 2013 when unassured we’re starting to discuss a greater deepening of regional integration to move forward with a continental strategy for using natural resources for the good of the uniso then the united states launched an agreement with mexico colombia peru and chile which were the governments that were then more aligned with the hemispheric vision of the united states so for example chile which is part of the pacific alliance which was a way of disagreement with the united states trying to reorganize interests in the region so i just like to draw attention to the great failures of the united states in the economic and political realm in the technological realm in the last few years so for example 5g nato considers 5g an issue of national security its importance in the fourth industrial revolution in the internet of things in self-driving vehicles it’s great it’s the profound impact that it’s going to have including intelli medicine but also because in europe united states did not develop this technology it was china that did and in spite of all the commercial retaliations imposed by the united states the main telecommunications was not stopped by the united states so any country that is going to be intended to be out of the 5g technology would be outside the possibility of being priced of the possibility of being part of the technological cycles that emerging in the world economy as a whole where do we see these failures apple which used to which follows us policies and refused 5g technology has recently announced that it will produce 5g adapted telephonic technology because it can’t simply cannot be out of this process but it announces after huawei and several world companies started launching this technology the same happened with tick tock which is another failure of this threatening discourse of the united states regarding china’s positioning in telecommunications tiktok has become one of the largest social networks in the world and it’s created and managed by china it was legally banned by the us and legally this not didn’t last for more than 48 hours because it was several companies contested this and tick-tock resumed in the united states and based with on united states companies so these are important failures that show how the economic the con shows that the economic conditions of the us to impose a sort of discourse are increasingly weakened and in this process of the pandemic i think china perhaps brought forward the most important element in this conjuncture of a health crisis in the darvis meeting several a few years ago president sis jesus mentioned the need of making the coveted vaccine a public good so the possibility that there might be a break of patents of the covert 19 vaccine i think if they unprecedented political fact at least in the recent history of capitalism i think it’s a moment where global capitalism is placing the defense of life before the interest of the market i think this is a unprecedented fact if it really materializes in the agenda of the who and the wto etc the united states has just declared its support for this and the european union is also coming on board if this becomes a planetary agreement and we managed to immunize the population on a global level which is completely indispensable to any sort of economic recovery then we will see the limits of the system and the possibility of building a post-capitalist world and so to move to the second question i don’t know if there are some i’ve got some time left markers do i i think i’m at my limit here but just not to overlook your question completely about the importance of socialism with chinese characteristics for latin america well i recall the declaration the statement made by the chinese communist party in their last assembly i think it was in 2017 when among the several things that were mentioned in the final declaration was that socialism with chinese characteristics was not just a contribution by china for itself but for the whole world because it would take away the capacity of seduction by capitalism throughout the world so i think this is something interesting because china has a view of itself as a part of a larger long-term um civilizatory process if we look at what the new silk route it launched in 2013 means in order to reflect on china on the 21st century we see that this new silk route is inspired on the old silk route which came about 200 years before christ until centuries later so the so china is making use of a historical legacy in order to think about its own future and the future of the old eurasia and the global economy as a whole and i think this is very important to think for us to reflect on in latin america which is still living under a colonial influence especially in our thought which is it’s a very strong influence here we had civilizatory processes of great importance which means that our civilization is the third most ancient in the planet and i’m sorry for my chinese colleagues but really it’s even older than chinese civilization it’s the civilizations on the northern coast of peru five years ago and existed for almost 5 000 years with great commercial linguistic in into intercultural exchanges in the andes and in the amazon and spreading up into central america and the caribbean with very refined technologies anti-seismic technologies direct interference and the genetics of certain plants such as cotton and this is part of a civilizatory legacy in our region which if we really appropriate it we can think about our historical process and our legacies in the region and this will help us think about the possibilities of social transformations that our peoples want and need i think the first question is related to that with a vision of a very historical legacy in order to think about socialism and latin american transformation from latin america and secondly what’s chinese socialism brings us is a strategic view of china and i think this is very important for us to think because if we don’t think of strategically about what sort of development development we want and where we want to arrive in the 21st century will not be able to think about local regional uh development projects and i think this is vital so we do have very important and interesting legacies in our region we were the region where for example the world social forum arose and with its impact throughout the world for the region that placed the need to break with the european paradigm of a state third element that i’d like to finish off with it’s a it’s not enough for us to think about strategies of this type we’ve got to think about concrete plans in order to take forward these strategies and concrete concrete instruments to take them forward as well and one vital instrument in this process is going to be recover the vision of a sovereign integration the projects and processes of integration that precede the 21st century and the new ones in the 21st century as vital instruments to strengthen our region in order for us to think about it strategically and to think about our continents participation in these profound changes in the contemporary world system thank you marcus thank you professor monica brookman for your class on the contradictions and the failures as you said of the strategies of the empire against china and especially for your contribution of on the lessons of chinese socialism to brazil and those are some of the challenges that we need and have to discuss so now i’m going to hand over to professor elias jabor from the communist party of the brazil which is one of the great specialists of brazil and china and has been studying china for a long time and we’re also going to suggest the same questions to you regarding the contradictions and the causes for these attacks by the usa to china and one thing that we know that elias knows a lot about and thinks a lot about are the lessons that chinese socialism can bring to countries such as brazil and countries of the global south so now i will ask elias to speed things up a little bit because we’re going over time so thank you very much elias over to you now i’d like to thank you for the invitation to participate in this great event it’s a great honor for me to be here translating president dilma rousseff who’s part of my and she lives in my heart and she lives in my son’s heart who’s only little and she lives in the heart of all the portuguese patriots and in the hearts of everyone who is with her in this process coup process in brazil and she lives in my son’s heart and he’s only a year and four months i’d also like to greet professor wang wen and professor monica brookman my comrade here in rio de janeiro i also live in rio in spite of being from sao paulo and our great comrade and friend jean pedro who i have great admiration and intellectual and political respect for and greet i’d like to greet marco and things and i will directly answer the two questions i’m not going to beat around the bush so regarding the cold war we have to look upon the question historically what we see today is this possibility of a new cold war is yet another chapter of uh something rooted in the old cold war with ronald reagan for instance back then state terrorism became an open government policy against socialism and national autonomous project financing of far-right terrorist groups around the world and jihadists like in afghanistan during the soviet occupation the so-called freedom fighters and the asphyxiation the economic asphyxiation of third world countries using organizations like the imf and the world bank were fundamental in this new global strategy initiated with ronald reagan people talk a lot about tiananmen square a lot of lies are told about that episode but the fact is that 1989 the united states murdered 3 000 people while bombing panama with the intention of toppling the president of panama in the same year of the episodes of the tiananmen square they killed 3 000 civilians in panama so the 90s enshrines a fundamental leap in this strategy i am not among those that think it’s enforceable i don’t think that it’s impossible for there to be a new cold war that there are no objective conditions i disagree i think there are conditions for a new cold war or new cold wars in the plural even hot wars in the future because that’s in the nature of imperialism war it’s nothing different it’s nothing outside of the imperialism so the material interests of imperialism of u.s imperialism are directly confronted with opposite to the interests of global society so that’s the new cold war strategies context which by the way has already become has already become a semiotic war against china it’s the most defamed country in the world today uh china the 1990s enshrined a fundamental leap in this strategy initiated by ronald reagan on the one hand with the attempt to impose a single neoliberal line of thought which meant backwards steps that yet have to be studied by this human and social sciences number two neoliberalism financialization became a new pattern a new standard of accumulation which is about blackmailing poor countries and the third point about the 90s the return of militarized canadianism very similar to what the world had witnessed under ngati germany so there was a global military dictatorship established headed up by us imperialism i’m going to give a very clear example here during the clinton era united states were involved in 48 military interventions much more than during the whole of the cold war there were only 16 military interventions by imperialism but only under clinton under the mantra of defending democracy human rights humanitarian wars there were 48 military interventions the iraq war the occupation of afghanistan they are part of this context this attempt to impose a global military dictatorship as i call it and within this context that i’m putting in historical perspective there are new for example the hybrid wars started by the barack obama government i have no illusion with a democratic government the obama government what it represented as a government my country my homeland for instance from 2006 especially from 2013 there was a brazil was the object of an intense hybrid war which led to a coup d’etat which led to a civilizatory backwardness of 20 step back of 20 30 50 years that’s what we’re experiencing in brazil today and we have here a person who was the main victim of this process who is our very dear beloved president dilma rousseff in parallel with the new hubs of power in the world emerged especially with the growing uh political and economic power of the people’s republic of china which since 1978 has gone th


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